In almost every jurisdiction the defendant is required, under oath, to state that he is pleading guilty because he is fact guilty and is required to described with particularity the nature of his crime
He pled guilty to “disorderly conduct.” It’s easy enough to say “sure, I may have been disorderly, and what’s $50″ (or whatever the fine was, especially compared to fighting it at trial — just try getting a lawyer for $50).
Reading the officer’s account of things ( http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/08/gop_senator_larry_craig_arrested_for_lewd_conduct.html ), I have to say (1) my gut feeling is that he was guilty, and (2) my other gut feeling is that the case would have been thrown out had it gone to trial (”I put my bag down by the door and tapped my foot? That’s all you got? How is that disorderly?”).
But, hey, what’s the fun of taking on “gay causes” if you don’t get to smear the other side for being gay? (Directed at the hypocritical Democratic Party, not our gracious host). I mean, why isn’t Hillary out in front saying that Senator Craig needs our understanding and support?
Comment by Max Lybbert — Tuesday, August 28, 2024 @ 9:11 am
Kip: Interesting point.
Max: I suppose I just can’t see pleading guilty to anything, especially if I were a Senator, if, indeed, all I did was tap my foot and put my bag down. My sense of righteous indignation at being arrested for going to the bathroom would make it impossible for me to simply plead guilty. As such, the guilty plea speaks volumes to me.
Comment by Dr. Steven Taylor — Tuesday, August 28, 2024 @ 9:29 am
On the way to work, I heard on the radio that he’s paid over $500 in fines. So it’s not the kind of punishment I originally though of based on the charge.
I don’t know what the standard of proof is. I can’t say if it’s “beyond reasonable doubt,” or something less. But, yes, my gut reaction is that there is probably something there. OTOH, I don’t think it would stick in a legal case. But then he’d be in the news for fighting the accusation. It’s a lose-lose. I think his plan was to keep things quiet, which almost worked.
Comment by Max Lybbert — Tuesday, August 28, 2024 @ 11:45 am
What happened with Sen. Craig is indicative of what happens when people who really aren’t religious pretend to be, just to conjure up votes from groups that wouldn’t otherwise vote for them. That’s why the public shouldn’t buy into the “my faith is a true part of me” trickery from certain presidential candidates whose views otherwise show their disdain for religion and largely the Christian faith.
Comment by CJ Madden — Wednesday, August 29, 2024 @ 4:11 pm
Craig says he’s not gay. Sure, with his wife by his side, he’s bi. But this is typical cruising for perverted gay sex.
Comment by N Waff — Wednesday, August 29, 2024 @ 6:17 pm
I appreciate the logical tone of this article. So, if Craig wasn’t guilty, why did he plead guilty? Two reasons come to mind. One, he didn’t trust the judicial system, Two, he simply didn’t want this type of exposure. I think the latter is most likely. Still, giving him the benefit of the doubt, as Kip stated, saying you are guilty when you are not is purjery. So even if he is innocent regarding the incident, he is openly not innocent on this fact.
Would he would have got this thrown out of court if he confronted it (pled not guilty)? If he did, it would likely only be because he had access and funds for the best legal defense. And…if he did, I suppose all others that have been caught in Minneapolis and other cities would use his success to fight their own legal battles. The fact is, what worked to catch others caught him.
I think his behavior as observed by the police was very unlikely to be a coincidence and an accidental mis-interpretation. That he denies doing so is most heartbreaking to Idahoans like myself - we care most about truth, not (even being a Republican state) personal preferences.
Comment by Dianne — Wednesday, August 29, 2024 @ 10:40 pm
So why would you plead guilty if you were in fact not? Was he told to and if so by who? He didn’t seek any legal advice, stange..
But who knows its seems to me more and more everyone loves a scandal.
Maybe he was set up? I trust nobody but my close friends, family and cat!
Comment by Angela — Friday, August 31, 2024 @ 9:14 pm
Pleading guilty when you’re not is perjury.
In almost every jurisdiction the defendant is required, under oath, to state that he is pleading guilty because he is fact guilty and is required to described with particularity the nature of his crime
Comment by KipEsquire — Tuesday, August 28, 2024 @ 8:59 am
He pled guilty to “disorderly conduct.” It’s easy enough to say “sure, I may have been disorderly, and what’s $50″ (or whatever the fine was, especially compared to fighting it at trial — just try getting a lawyer for $50).
Reading the officer’s account of things ( http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/08/gop_senator_larry_craig_arrested_for_lewd_conduct.html ), I have to say (1) my gut feeling is that he was guilty, and (2) my other gut feeling is that the case would have been thrown out had it gone to trial (”I put my bag down by the door and tapped my foot? That’s all you got? How is that disorderly?”).
But, hey, what’s the fun of taking on “gay causes” if you don’t get to smear the other side for being gay? (Directed at the hypocritical Democratic Party, not our gracious host). I mean, why isn’t Hillary out in front saying that Senator Craig needs our understanding and support?
Comment by Max Lybbert — Tuesday, August 28, 2024 @ 9:11 am
Kip: Interesting point.
Max: I suppose I just can’t see pleading guilty to anything, especially if I were a Senator, if, indeed, all I did was tap my foot and put my bag down. My sense of righteous indignation at being arrested for going to the bathroom would make it impossible for me to simply plead guilty. As such, the guilty plea speaks volumes to me.
Comment by Dr. Steven Taylor — Tuesday, August 28, 2024 @ 9:29 am
On the way to work, I heard on the radio that he’s paid over $500 in fines. So it’s not the kind of punishment I originally though of based on the charge.
I don’t know what the standard of proof is. I can’t say if it’s “beyond reasonable doubt,” or something less. But, yes, my gut reaction is that there is probably something there. OTOH, I don’t think it would stick in a legal case. But then he’d be in the news for fighting the accusation. It’s a lose-lose. I think his plan was to keep things quiet, which almost worked.
Comment by Max Lybbert — Tuesday, August 28, 2024 @ 11:45 am
What happened with Sen. Craig is indicative of what happens when people who really aren’t religious pretend to be, just to conjure up votes from groups that wouldn’t otherwise vote for them. That’s why the public shouldn’t buy into the “my faith is a true part of me” trickery from certain presidential candidates whose views otherwise show their disdain for religion and largely the Christian faith.
Comment by CJ Madden — Wednesday, August 29, 2024 @ 4:11 pm
Craig says he’s not gay. Sure, with his wife by his side, he’s bi. But this is typical cruising for perverted gay sex.
Comment by N Waff — Wednesday, August 29, 2024 @ 6:17 pm
I appreciate the logical tone of this article. So, if Craig wasn’t guilty, why did he plead guilty? Two reasons come to mind. One, he didn’t trust the judicial system, Two, he simply didn’t want this type of exposure. I think the latter is most likely. Still, giving him the benefit of the doubt, as Kip stated, saying you are guilty when you are not is purjery. So even if he is innocent regarding the incident, he is openly not innocent on this fact.
Would he would have got this thrown out of court if he confronted it (pled not guilty)? If he did, it would likely only be because he had access and funds for the best legal defense. And…if he did, I suppose all others that have been caught in Minneapolis and other cities would use his success to fight their own legal battles. The fact is, what worked to catch others caught him.
I think his behavior as observed by the police was very unlikely to be a coincidence and an accidental mis-interpretation. That he denies doing so is most heartbreaking to Idahoans like myself - we care most about truth, not (even being a Republican state) personal preferences.
Comment by Dianne — Wednesday, August 29, 2024 @ 10:40 pm
So why would you plead guilty if you were in fact not? Was he told to and if so by who? He didn’t seek any legal advice, stange..
But who knows its seems to me more and more everyone loves a scandal.
Maybe he was set up? I trust nobody but my close friends, family and cat!
Comment by Angela — Friday, August 31, 2024 @ 9:14 pm