August 14, 2003

Moore and the Commandments

Kristopher reports that Chief Justice Roy Moore is refusing to comply with a court order to remove the Ten Commandments momument from the Alabama Supreme Court building.

This isn't a surprise, to be sure.

While I have already noted my religious point of view today, I have to say that Mr. Moore is in the wrong here. By dint of his office, I find it difficult to understand how he can justify to himself defying a court order. Further, this whole affair has always struck me as an unnecessary line in the sand.

And while I don't really see the specific harm of such a momument, I don't see the need for this fight. It strikes me as an unnecessary waste of time, money, and energy.

Here's a news story on this topic.

Posted by Steven Taylor at August 14, 2003 03:27 PM | TrackBack

I'm not usually one to post to blogs, but I wanted to add 2 things.

* I noticed something rather interesting in the articles related to this on the major wires. Judge Moore seems to have used the ten commandments as a personal election tool when running for judge in the past. Calling himself the '10 commandments judge', etc. That seems a bit more like self-aggrandizement than religious belief.

* The monument, if it just stated the ten commandments in text form perhaps wouldn't have been so bad, but I got my first look at it today(not being a big tv watcher). What struck me was the obvious religious imagery in the monument. Two tablets? That's different than just stating moral principles.

Posted by: Eric at August 14, 2003 05:36 PM

If Judge Moore does not remove the monument he is nothing but a common criminal and should be put in jail. I guess he justifies his disrespect for the law because he is a right-wing fundamentalist christian extremist. He gives the rest of us that are religious but respect the law a bad name. Since when does religous extremism exempt one from the laws of the land? Oh I guess it was since we got a president that has no regard for the separation of church and state. If you want to see what government looks like when you don't separate church and state take a look at the old Taliban administration in Afghanistan and wake up.

I am also offended by the fact that the State of Alabama and hence my tax dollars may be fined $5000 a day for this guy's insubordination. Is that why we have a big tax increase on the ballot next month? I originally supported the tax plan but now I'm not so sure if that is the kind of thing I want to be paying for. The Governer should step in an get rid of that thing before we have to pay for it. Put the Judge in jail.

Posted by: Rosa at August 15, 2003 12:49 PM

What gets me about Judge Roy,was the lamenting of the money the state has had to spend so far on this case, and cannot see that it was no ones fault but his own. He blames everyone but himself. Not only does he demand an acknowledgement of God, but, he wants to tell me which God to acknowledge. Sweet Home Talibama.

Posted by: Ken at August 15, 2003 01:32 PM

A judge with no respect for or understanding of our laws has lost his creditability. He is sharing his personal problems with us all, refusing to accept reason, while expecting us to pay the bill.
If he is sincere, he could learn from reading in the New Testament Bible, Mark 12 :17 where it says: ''Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's,and to God the things that are God's".
In this passage, Jesus reconizes hypocrisy and points out we are to respect the difference between State and God for us all.
This Judge is putting himself above all laws.

Posted by: martha mcnelly at August 15, 2003 01:34 PM

Am I the only person who wonders if this kind of nonsense is how our proposed tax increase will be wasted?

I love the idea of increased school funding - but do you really throw more money at an intolerant theocracy?

Posted by: rudy at August 15, 2003 02:49 PM

Oh yeah, I already noticed it. Did you know the state of Alabama has already spent $125 million defending this idiotic statue. I am starting to rethink that tax increase too. I know we need the money so we can improve our third world-like schools and services but it sounds like all that money will all be wasted anyway and we will still be ranked 50th in the country for everything.

Posted by: Rosa at August 15, 2003 04:43 PM

I'm not a Christian per say I believe in God, but I'm not always very Christianly. So don't think I'm some religous fanatic. I just tired of the Government tring to take away our rights. Amazedly many people out there have absolutely no idea what Separation of Church, and State means. I suggest people read the Constitution, and our 1st Amend. Right's. (Amendment I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances). I fail to see how having the Ten Commandment's monument in the Alabama Supreme Court Building is an establishment of religion, but I do see where it is in violation of our 1st Amendment right's by the prohibition of the free exercise there of. (Note 10 Absolute nature of prohibition or separation.) goes more in detail of what Separation of Church, and State means. Basiclly the way I read it is. The Government can make no regulation prohibiting my right to free religion. The Government need's to stay out of religion period. It is getting to the point where Christianity is being outlawed by the Government, and that scares me. It's already to the point where you can not pray in School, and Lord forbid you mention Jesus, or God in School. our Forefather's came to America, and established the Constitution for that very reason, they did not want the Government to be able to say one way or the other what religuos beliefs we can have. We are losing our right's.

Posted by: mark at August 15, 2003 06:15 PM

I you people dont think that tax increase is going to help our schools because its not. its going in the pockets of politicions.

Posted by: mark at August 15, 2003 06:48 PM

I hope you people dont think tha tax increase is going to help our schools because its not. Its going in the pockets of crooked politicians.

Posted by: mark at August 15, 2003 06:53 PM

Look, I am quite conservative, prone to distrust government, and am typically reflexively against tax increases (read the blog if you don't believe me). However, in this case, it is not only needed, but vital for our state.

Just stating that the revenues will go to "crooked politicians" (and yes, there are some, just like there are crooked businessmen, pastors, teachers and factory workers--but there are honest ones as well) is cliche and not really an argument.

Posted by: Steven at August 15, 2003 07:12 PM

I would like ask Judge Moore one question, If he can put a Christian monument in the Court Building, can A Budhist put his monument there also? Or a Shinto, or a Moslem? All these religions are present in Alabama and they demand equal space and time. Or do we turn Alabama into Talabama?

Posted by: Johnny Tyler at August 15, 2003 08:48 PM

I would like to anyone to show me where in the U.S. Constitution is the phrase "Separation of Church and State". I fully support Chief Justice Moore's stand for the ten commandments. Also I'm getting fed up with these judical tyrants who try to infringe on states' rights. I think that it is about time someone stood up to these robed monarchs who call themselves federal judges. I'm sure that if our forefathers could see what our court systems are doing they would turn over in their graves. I wonder if the same judge who ordered the Ten Commandments removed from the State Supreme Court in Alabama is going to order the removal of the Ten Commandments from the walls of the U.S. Supreme Court that are chiseled into the walls themselves? The only constitution that you will actually find the phrase "separation of church and state" is in the constitution of the U.S.S.R. which is what Russia was called many years ago!

Posted by: Charles Frank at August 15, 2003 09:21 PM

You are correct: the phrase is not in the Constitution. It actually has its origins in a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote.

Posted by: Steven at August 15, 2003 09:51 PM

I completely agree with Judge Moore. It takes somebody to make a stand on his religious beliefs, with all the rights that are taken away from us by the people that are offended by our God. I'm sick and tired of hearing about somebody that dosen't want to say the Pledge of Alleigance because it says "one nation under God." In our schools, is it so bad if a kid wants to pray, any kid is welcome to pray to any God that they like, but is it so wrong for a teacher to be able to pray withe his/her students? If a child is offended, I think they should be able to leave. Personally I'm tired as a christian of having my rights taken away from me.

Posted by: David at August 15, 2003 11:53 PM

How sad to see extremists trying every way they can to force their brand of Christianity and it's false history on the rest of us and then have the gall to portray themselves as "victims" and their religion being "outlawed".

I guess Osama Bin Laden thinks he's a victim, too.

The rest of us are quite happy with our own beliefs and trust the telling of history to scholars - not snakeoil salesman like Moore, Falwell,Robertson, and the rest of that right-wing Republican crowd.

If that's your religion - go for it. Just stop using my tax money to force it down everyone's throat.

I'll pray my own way and on my own time - thank you.

Posted by: rudy at August 16, 2003 01:05 AM

How sad to see extremists trying every way they can to force their brand of Christianity and it's false history on the rest of us and then have the gall to portray themselves as "victims" and their religion being "outlawed".

I guess Osama Bin Laden thinks he's a victim, too.

The rest of us are quite happy with our own beliefs and trust the telling of history to scholars - not snakeoil salesman like Moore, Falwell,Robertson, and the rest of that right-wing Republican crowd.

If that's your religion - go for it. Just stop using my tax money to force it down everyone's throat.

I'll pray my own way and on my own time - thank you.

Posted by: rudy at August 16, 2003 01:05 AM

Predictably, Roy Moore is digging in. The ultimate extreme of his demogogery will be evidenced by the big rally scheduled today in Montgomery, with deluded Mooreites swarming in from all around the country to show their support for his stubborn, misguided assaults on the First Amendment.

Moore knows better, or ought to. A massive granite chunk fashioned into a tableau for display of elements of the sacred text of a specific religious heritage (Judeo-Christian) does NOT constitute some innocuous embodiment of a general concept of this Nation's founding upon principles of divine natural law, as Moore would contend. And Moore's arrogant use of his authority as Chief Justice most decidedly does NOT reflect the personality and philosophy of that gentle Galilean he purports to serve. The Jesus I know never used his authority (and he had lots more than Moore) to force his views on anyone.

Posted by: THEHOSS at August 16, 2003 06:30 AM

I here people using words like exstremist, and Talabama. Well if you think that you can relate Alabama to the talaban you are very wrong. I have been in the middle east and know what they are about. Maybe some of you should go see for yourselves. That will never happen though, because you would rather sit back,and enjoy the freedoms that others have payed the price for you to have.

I hear people say that Moore is making an assault on the First Amendment. I suggest they go back and read the First Amendment, because he is standing up for your rights, my rights, and his rights under the First Amendment.

I am not a Christian, or snake oilsales man, buddist, musleum, or anything else, but it is not hard to see how some people are tring to force others to there way of thinking. You say because of this monument that Christianity is being forced down your throat, but yet our kids have to learn about homosexuality in school, because we can't discriminate against homosexual's. OH but homosexuality can be forced down MY throat, and my childrens throat. I don't think so.

If you don't want to look at the Ten Commandment's then don't look, but stop trying to take away my right to choose to look or not to look. Under the First Amendment I have the right to practise my religion, or any other religion that I like.

We can have Greek Gods in our court rooms, but oh no we can't have the Ten Commandments.

Oh The First Amendment to the Constitution Note 10 does talk about separation of church, and state read it. It basically says that the Government has little say in religous maters, and the government can not make a law to remove the Ten Commandment on a religious bases. I basically say religious has to have some place (as a foundation) in Government, But the Government Has no place in religion.

Posted by: mark at August 18, 2003 10:03 AM

You may have been to the Middle East, but you didn't get the message - what makes this great nation different from those miserable countries is a healthy respect for human rights and the Seperation of Church and State.

Judge Moore, who seems to ignore the Fourth Commandment whenever it suits him, finally told the truth yesterday to his fanatical followers when he said "This is about God."

Yep - it's not about law, it's not about history, it's not about justice.

It's about a vain man betraying his oath of office to hold his religious views above all others.

Posted by: rudy at August 18, 2003 11:47 AM

Anyone notice that the DOW ended at -6.66 today the day they removed the monument?

Posted by: Tim at August 27, 2003 03:21 PM

I totally agree with Judge Moore. Our country was based on God and the Bible so there is no reason why we should deny that. Putting up a monument that has the 10 commandment on it is reminding us of how we should be living.

Posted by: Erkle at August 28, 2003 05:48 PM

It may make you feel good to repeat nonsense, "erkie", but that doesn't mnake it true.

If this nation were, as you put it, "based on God and the Bible", could you please tell me where in the Bible to find the basis for democratically elected government, contract law, and trial by jury?

Posted by: rudy at August 28, 2003 08:32 PM

"This book [speaking of the bible] is the secret of
England's greatness." Queen, Victoria Windsor

"My daily advisor and comfort is the impregnable rock
of the Holy Scriptures." Gladstone, architech of
American law

"You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of
life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ.
These will make you a greater and happier people than
you are. Congress will do every thing they can to
assist you in this intention." a message to the
Native American Indians, May, 12th, 1779 by, George
Washington, 1st US President

"Religion and virtue are the only foundations, not
only of republicanism and of all free government, but
of social felicity under all governments and in all
the combinations of human society." John Adams, 2nd
US President

"I have always said, and will always say, that the
studious perusal of the sacred volume will make us
better citizens, better husbands, and better fathers."
Thomas Jefferson, 3rd US President, 1st Washington
D.C. school board president

"Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil
Society, he must be considered as a subject of the
Governor of the Universe... Religion... is the basis
and foundation of government." James Madison, 4th US
President, chief architect of the Constitution

"The Declaration of Independence first organized the
social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's
mission upon earth and laid the corner stone of human
government upon the first precepts of Christianity."
John Quincy Adams, 6th US President

"The bible is the rock on which our Republic rest."
Andrew Jackson, 7th US President

"I am profitably engaged in reading the Bible. Take
all of this upon reason that you can, and balance on
faith, and you will live and die a better man."
Abraham Lincoln, 16th US President

"I am sorry for the men who do not read the Bible
daily. I wonder why they deprive themselves of the
strength and the pleasure. I should be afraid to go
forward if I did not believe that there lay at the
foundation of all schooling and all our thought this
imcomparable and unimpeachable Word of God." Woodrow
Wilson, 28th US President

"Almost every man who has by his life work added to
the sum of human achievements of which the race is
proud - has based his life work largely upon the
teachings of the Bible." Theodore Roosevelt, 32nd US

"Religion is the only solid basis of good morals;
therefore, education should teach the precepts of
religion, and the duties of man towards God."
Gouveneur Morris, scribe / handwriter of the

"Whoever is an avowed enemy of God, I scuple not to
call him an enemy to this country." John
Whitherspoon, Continental Congress, Declaration of

"Providence has given to our people the choice of
their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the
privelege and interest of our Christian Nation to
select and prefer Christians for their rulers." John
Jay, 1st Supreme Court Justice

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often
that this great nation was founded, not by
religionist, but by Christians, not on religions but
on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this reason
peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum,
prosperity and freedom of worship here." Patrick
Henry, Continental Congress

"...convincing proofs I see... that God governs in the
affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the
ground without His notice, is it probable that an
empire can rise without His aid?" Benjamin Franklin,
Constitutional Convention,

"Of all the dipositions and habits which lead to
political prosperity, religion and morality are
indispensable supports... . Reason and experience
both forbid us to expect that national morality can
prevail in exclusion of religious principles."
Alexander Hamiltion, 1st Secretary of Treasurer

"The moral principles and precepts contained in the
Scriptures ought to form the basis of all our civil
constitutions and laws... . All the miseries and
evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition,
injustice, opppression, slavery, and war, proceed from
their despising or neglecting the precepts contained
in the Bible." Noah Webster, American Revolutionist,
Constitutional Convention, Dictionary

"There is not a community which cannot be purified,
redeemed and improved by a better knowledge and larger
application of the Bible to daily life." W.J. Bryan,
Democratic Orator and statesman, ran three times for
presidency and failed, nicknamed the Commoner

"I suspect that the future progress of the human race
will be determined by the circulation of the Bible."
Dr. R.A. Millikan, 1923 Nobel prize winner in physics

"Our ways; through a Christian President, finally
outlawed slavery in America with the world soon
following its lead. The great freedoms we enjoy are
the direct result of the Christian faith of our
predecessors. No great civilization or religion from
the world did it; it was our Christian Forefathers and
Foremothers and their open faith in God through the
Jesus Christ that did." William M.
Cooper, [email protected]

Posted by: William Cooper at December 28, 2003 08:07 PM
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