Yesterday, when addressing the NRA, Rudy Giuliani stated, in reference to the MoveOn.org “Petraeus or Betray US?” ad, the following:
It passed a line we should not allow American political organizations to pass.
That is my transcription of the quote as broadcast on Special Report with Brit Hume on Friday September 21, 2024–and rewound thrice via TiVo to make sure I got it right. I have seen the quote in two other places where the “It” was replaced by either “They” (Marc Ambinder) or “We” (MSNBC’s “First Read” blog). Ambinder includes the next sentence, not aired on the aforementioned broadcast:
We are at war right now, whether some people want to recognize it or not.
I was unaware that there was a “line” in the United States of America that we couldn’t cross in terms of political speech. Indeed, if any speech should have absolute protection it is political speech. I am not a MoveOn.org booster, but I fully recognize and support their right to say what they wish in the public square. One could interpret his statement as one that simply points to decorum, but when a presidential candidates starts slinging words around like “allow” one should take notice (especially a candidate who has already demonstrate that he may have an expansive view of executive authority).
Further, isn’t one of the alleged motivations for fighting these wars the protection of our liberties? Rudy, doesn’t seem to see it that way. Rather, he seems to be saying that citizens of the United States of America can’t criticize the war or its leaders. How does that, in any way, comport with the letter or the spirit of the the First Amendment’s free speech clause? Indeed, given the high stakes of war, shouldn’t that be the best time to be critical? The vibe here, like the vibe from the administration, comes across essentially as: once the war starts, everyone should shut up, support the troops (meaning the war policy itself) and, btw, Congress should fund the fighting, but shouldn’t try to interfere in any way). This is all far too authoritarian a view of the executive power for my tastes, thanks.
I also find the notion that interest groups/individuals shouldn’t criticize generals in particular to be distasteful. While I respect the service of those in our military, placing them on a pedestal is a dangerous and undemocratic game. And I especially find the ongoing beatification of Petreaus to be especially odd.
What is especially disturbing is that there hasn’t been much (if any) scrutiny over his views on free expression, but rather it appears that the issue of the day is the cell phone call from his wife. Indeed, that little bit of dinner theater appears to be getting even more press than the fact the Rudy seems to have conveniently adjusted his gun control views for the purposes of the campaign. His explanation for the shift? 9/11, of course.
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Gee, I missed that part about passing laws or something the executive could request.
Maybe Guiliani meant that as citizens we should find this a repulsive denigration for no reason other than political one upmanship and make our feeling known to such organizations.
Of course, I also know that in some quarters (a college campus e.g.) the first impulse is “ban that.” Not so much for most of America.
Comment by Sadie — Saturday, September 22, 2024 @ 4:51 pm
You’re putting way too much in to what Guliani said. He didn’t say that MoveOn or anybody else doesn’t have the right to say what they did. Reducing this to a first amendment issue purposely misses the point. Don’t read in a threat into a royal “we”. The right of speech doesn’t protect one from criticism
MoveOn.Org entered the conversation by making some really hard hitting accusations with cutesy word play. Cool. Protected speech. Nothing RG said dealt with first amendment protections.
There are lots of lines that people and organizations shouldn’t cross and remain in the mainstream conversations of the USA. Many, especially on the right half of the political divide (and about half on the left side if the 72-25 senate rebuke is to be belived) think they crossed a line that put them outside the bounds mainstream polite political conversation.
Reducing it to a first amendment issue totally misses the point of Guliani’s comment. There are lots of lines that shouldn’t be crossed. Calling for removal of the right of suffrage for African Americans is protected speech, however it crosses a line that puts one outside the mainstream of modern political discourse. Random accusations of betrayal in a time of war are in the same category. The fact that they are still in mainstream says more about modern Democrats than it does about Guliani.
Comment by Buckland — Saturday, September 22, 2024 @ 9:36 pm
Amongst the things about this entire affair that I find to be amazing include the fact that this horrible, hideous insult that crosses the line has been repeated over and over again by grandstanding politicians. How many citizens who would not have even heard this heinous insult had politicians not spent the last week or so railing against its horror for no other reason than scoring cheap political points?
If was really such a terrible thing, it would have done away one heck of lot faster were it not for all the faux outrage.
And to be fair, I can’t see how this issue especially stains the Democrats. Not only have plenty of Democrats expressed their outrage, but it has been both sides that have seen this as a fantastic opportunity to hammer on a fake issue.
Ultimately, Rudy can say what he likes (as can you, me and MoverOn.org). Ultimately, however, I would prefer a president who has a healthier respect for basic rights. Rudy in particular concerns me on this issue, as I do think he has a bit of an authoritarian streak–not unlike the current administration. And certainly the current administration has made me gun shy of such attitudes.
Comment by Dr. Steven Taylor — Saturday, September 22, 2024 @ 9:52 pm
Everyone misses the one little word “or” that stops the ad from calling the general anything. The ad was asking a question. How this country and politicians can be so easily side tracked is sad.
Comment by The Misanthrope — Sunday, September 23, 2024 @ 7:20 pm
[…] Yesterday, when addressing the NRA, Rudy Giuliani stated, in reference to the MoveOn.org Petraeus or Betray US? ad, the following: It passed a line we should not allow American political organizations to pass … that there was a line in the United States of America that we couldnt cross in terms of political speech. Indeed source: Rudy and the First Amendment: More on the…, PoliBlog : A Rough Draft of my Thoughts […]
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