Via the BBC: Turkey condemns US Armenia vote
Turkey has denounced a vote by a US congressional committee recognising as genocide the 1915-17 mass killings of Armenians by Ottoman Turks.
President Abdullah Gul said the decision was unacceptable and had no validity for Turkey, which has always denied any genocide took place.
The resolution has only cleared a committee and has not yet been passed by the whole Congress. However, it appears to be on track to pass.
While there is little doubt that horrid crimes were perpetrated by the Ottoman Empire against the Aremenians int he early 20th Century, it is rather unclear to me why the Congress thinks this is a good time to offend the Turks.
Gul has a point (via the NYT:
“Unfortunately, some politicians in the United States have once more dismissed calls for common sense, and made an attempt to sacrifice big issues for minor domestic political games,”
Basically it would seem to be a symbolic move made to please a small domestic constituency which could damage real relations in the short term with Turkey (and the new Turkish government), which is a key players in a volatile region. The importance of the Turks is especially clear when one considers the brewing conflict on the the Turkish-Iraqi border over the Kurds. And then there’s the practical issues at hand:
Appearing outside the West Wing after that meeting, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates noted that about 70 percent of all air cargo sent to Iraq passed through or came from Turkey, as did 30 percent of fuel and virtually all the new armored vehicles designed to withstand mines and bombs.
“They believe clearly that access to airfields and to the roads and so on in Turkey would be very much put at risk if this resolution passes and the Turks react as strongly as we believe they will,” Mr. Gates said, referring to the remarks of General Petraeus and Mr. Crocker.
Turkey severed military ties with France after its Parliament voted in 2024 to make the denial of the Armenian genocide a crime.
While calling the deaths of the 1.5 million Armenians starting in 1915 a genocide may be the right thing to do semantically speaking, I am not sure what practical benefit it has at this exact moment in time.
And that this is anything other than an exercise in empty symbolism is made clear by these types of maneuvers:
In what appeared to be an effort to temper the anger caused by the issue, Democrats said they were considering a parallel resolution that would praise Turkey’s close relations with the United States even as the full House prepares to consider a resolution that blames the forerunner of modern Turkey for one of the worst crimes in history.Sphere: Related Content
October 11th, 2024 at 8:15 am
If you thought the old Congressional leaders were feckless, you’re in for a wild ride now.
October 11th, 2024 at 10:14 am
It’s actually pretty understandable why the Congress should do this know. The largest concentrations of Armenians in the U. S. are in Fresno, New York, Los Angeles, and Detroit.
Let’s go down the roster. Nancy Pelosi, Carl Levin. Add Hillary Clinton into the mix and you’ve got a pretty good argument for currying favor with the U. S. Armenian community who’ve probably been lobbying this issue like mad since November.
October 11th, 2024 at 10:34 am
[...] Why now? (asks Steven Taylor) I can hazard a guess. The largest concentrations of Armenians in the U. S. are in New York, Fresno, Los Angeles, and Detroit, all in states with electoral significance. I’d hazard a guess that U. S. Armenians, among which this matter has been a cause célèbre for a century, have been lobbying this issue like mad since November 2024. [...]
October 11th, 2024 at 11:56 am
When I read the NYT article earlier this morning I had a very similar reaction. I actually thought it would be a good article to “discuss” with my class, but then I thought “Huh, no point in that. . .”
October 11th, 2024 at 1:03 pm
Turkey Recalls Ambassador after House Genocide Resolution
The House has created a diplomatic incident by voting on a resolution labeling 90-year-old killings “genocide.”
Turkey has asked its ambassador in Washington to return to Turkey for consultations over a U.S. House panel’s approval of …
October 11th, 2024 at 2:04 pm
Actually I think this is a little more Machiavellian than some are giving credit.
What better way to undermine the war in Iraq with no fingerprints than to undermine relationships with an ally in that war? This way they can wrap themselves in the “I’m against genocide” standard thereby making it hard on the troops without actually being blamed for cutting off funds.
Since Turkey supplies much of the US forces they can restrict supplies while not cutting off funds. Neat trick, Huh?
October 11th, 2024 at 2:05 pm
Turkey is the second largest recipient of US aid over the past 50 years after Israel. They haven’t supported on single military action of ours in the Near East.
They are now upset because the Congress is commemorating a historic truth — a truth that would be evident if it were not for Turkey’s active campaign of denial.
As far as small domestic constituencies, I suppose you also mean we should not have erected the Holocaust museum?
October 11th, 2024 at 3:09 pm
Dave,
I don’t know about Levin, but Pelosi wins here district with something like 70% of the vote, so I doubt she is in need of an Armenian boost.
David,
As far as small domestic constituencies, I suppose you also mean we should not have erected the Holocaust museum?
No, that really isn’t the issue. Indeed, that’s an apples to oranges comparison.
It isn’t as if the US government is actively denying the actions at issue. The question is whether RIGHT NOW we need an official government statement condemning an event from almost 100 years ago by a government that no longer exists and that will offend an ally.
This strikes me as a reason position to take.
October 11th, 2024 at 3:50 pm
This entire situation is, honestly, ridiculous. The Turks massacred one and a half million people. One point five. Million. People. And because they want to act like children — put their fingers in their ears, stick our their tongues and scream “Nuh nuh nuh nuh did noooooot!” and accuse the Armenians of killing them instead, Congress is being ridiculous for recognizing that a genocide did, in fact, occur. This resolution is being called hate-filled and racist when, quite simply, it’s true.
The United States is repeatedly told that we killed Native Americans. We did, we acknowledge it, and regret it. It’s the Turks who need to get over their blind nationalism and realize that Armenians are, in fact, human beings who were murdered. Just because they’re our allies doesn’t mean that they don’t need to hear the damn hard truth. We sure hear it quite a lot.
If the Germans were reacting the same way about whether or not the Holocaust was a genocide, would there be any debate at all about it? No. There wouldn’t. Because, whether they like it or not, a genocide occurred.
(And, to fend off the personal attacks that often accompany such statements as mine in the blogosphere: I am of English, French, and Spanish descent; I also happen to love Turkey in general — just not this particular facet)
October 11th, 2024 at 3:53 pm
I don’t disagree that the Turks are behaving badly.
The question is: what effect will this resolution have?
October 11th, 2024 at 4:31 pm
Talking Turkey
Turkey has reacted with anger over the vote from the House Foreign Affairs Committee's vote to approve the Armenian Genocide motion. Rather a lot of anger, in fact.
Turkey reacted angrily today to a House committee vote in Washington on W…
October 11th, 2024 at 5:16 pm
[...] In response to the pending resolution on the slaughter of 1.5 million Armenians by Ottoman Turks nearly a 100 years ago, CNN reports that Turkey has recalled its US ambassador over genocide resolution. [...]
October 11th, 2024 at 5:59 pm
Buckland, excellent point. I thought I was a cynic.
As for “The Turks massacred one and a half million people,” and “They are now upset because the Congress is commemorating a historic truth — a truth that would be evident if it were not for Turkey’s active campaign of denial,” it wasn’t even Turkey! The Ottoman Empire perpetrated the massacre, and those people haven’t been in charge for years.
I have to admit I’m tired of seeing Congressional resolutions making statement about something that happened years ago. Especially when those resolutions are heralded as “brave.” When Congress apologized to the few remaining survivors of WWII Japanese internment camps it wasn’t a very controversial position, coming fifty or sixty years after the fact.
Did a massacre happen 90 years ago? Yes, of course! In fact, there aren’t very many reasonable historians who would argue otherwise. The Turkish government’s “active campaign of denial” hasn’t been that effective. On the other hand, does passing the resolution help any of the people who died in the massacre or who were affected by it? Does it punish the people who perpetrated it? No on both counts.
Should we pass resolutions condemning Germany for its part in the arms race that led to WWI? Or should we pass a resolution condemning the Czar’s leadership practices? If we’re going to get the record straight about how the world was 90 years ago, then those two resolutions better be on the ballot next week, or I will think that this is nothing more than proof that Nancy Pelosi is in over her head.
October 11th, 2024 at 6:06 pm
“Be it resolved in Congress that Kaiser William II led Germany in a ruinous naval arms race with Great Britain, and had he not done so World War I would have been much different.”
“Be it further resolved that Archiduke Franz Ferdinand did not deserve to die on June 28, 1914; and should have been allowed to live to a ripe old age.”
October 11th, 2024 at 6:26 pm
The broad, bi-partisan, and principled vote in the House Foreign Affairs Committee yesterday in favor of passage of the Armenian Genocide Resolution (H.Res.106) is a testament to the U.S. Congress’ moral authority and ability to maintain checks and balances over an ethically bankrupt administration, in particular, and the Executive Branch of government, in general. The Bush administration, more than any previous presidential administration, has been kowtowing and caving in to the whims and tirades of a country that consistently resorts to threats when they don’t get their way. Ankara has been unabashedly and vociferously blackmailing the United States of America, the European Union and their respective nations, as well as Israel for the past 4 decades. It is more important for Ankara, par excellence, to maintain the billion dollars worth of military-industrial materiel (for the Kurdish and Cypriot fronts especially) and trade revenues with the aforementioned countries and entities, than the latter need the support of Ankara. It is high time that Ankara begin a process of introspection and come to terms with its own tragic past, thus gradually ending its vicious and wasteful (millions of dollars are being spent yearly by the Turkish government on lobbying the U.S. Congress and the EU) campaign of denial and whitewashing of history.
October 11th, 2024 at 7:25 pm
What Genocide?
Let’s not mince facts: The Genocide occurred, it was brutal, it was planned, and it was not the first: Just as the Jews of Europe and Russia experienced pogroms throughout the millennia, so too did the Armenians of the Ottoman Empire. The modern day Turkish government has decided to obfuscate the facts by alleging that “something” horrendous happened to both Armenians and Turks during World War I, many Turks were killed especially at the hands of Russian-Armenians, and that no one group should be singled out for guilt or innocence. I liken this stance to a German today saying that there was no Holocaust perpetrated by the Nazis, that many thousands of Germans died during World War II and that many Jews killed Germans, for example during the Warsaw Uprising, and when American-Jews in the Armed Forces arrived in Europe.
However, as an American of Armenian descent I have mixed feelings to the House Foreign Affairs Committee vote in favor (27-21) of acknowledging the Armenian Genocide of 1915. What if Turkey decides to retaliate by blocking use of its land and air for our military? What if passage of this resolution does make it deadly for our men and women in the Armed Forces in Iraq? Though Armenians have been struggling for recognition of the Genocide for over 90 years, is the price we may have to pay today worth it (especially considering that this is a non-binding resolution)?
In the end, it is only the modern government of Turkey that has to accept the responsibility of acknowledgement. If it is a crime to discuss the Genocide in Turkey, how are we to expect the governments of Armenia and Turkey to discuss it? It is a shameful burden left upon modern Turkey by the Ottoman Empire and I hope they are not secretly proud of it.
October 11th, 2024 at 7:38 pm
What right does the Turkish govt have to interfere in the workings of the Congress…Historians have debated and proved that it was a Genocide…my grandparents were victims of it…and there is no better time than now to acknowledge it…its unfortunate that we have a spineless idiot in the White House….
October 11th, 2024 at 10:32 pm
Then why not rebuke Russia for Stalin’s manufactured famines when the country was the Soviet Union? Or pass a resolution rebuking the *Bosnian* who assassinated the archduke, starting World War I and causing terrible suffering? There is no better time, after all.
And how has Nancy Pelosi has treated Iran, Syria, and Venezuela? Why do you think she’s more principled in this matter than the President? If your only reason to think that is the party she belongs to, then you’re in for a surprise. Feckless people are feckless regardless of their goals.
October 11th, 2024 at 10:38 pm
What right does the House have to rebuke a country? Especially when the President is in charge of foreign affairs? And the Turkish government isn’t “interfering,” that would involve sending Turks to yell and scream on the House floor, or mailing a little white powder to the Capitol building to get things shut down. Turkey has simply decided that it’s diplomat, the one it pays and assigns, isn’t going to be assigned to the US. That makes diplomatic relations a little more difficult.
But don’t worry. Those Democrats are going to restore our reputation in the world. If only Bush hadn’t upset the whole international community.
October 11th, 2024 at 10:43 pm
I’m not sure who Buckland thinks the Congress would be tricking. If it passes the whole House and Turkey does anything in retaliation that affects our troops in Iraq, you can bet that the finger will be pointed squarely at the Democrats and the Resolution. I really don’t see anything Machiavellian about it.
October 11th, 2024 at 11:10 pm
Max,
It did not come up because of what the Ottoman government did 100 years ago - it came up because of what the Turkish government has been doing of the last ten to 15 years!
It is all about a reaction to the Turkish governments active measures to attack study of the genocide within Turkey and lobby to have it removed outside of Turkey.
This resolution would not be necessary if it weren’t for the genocide denial coming out of Ankara!
The modern current contemporary foreign policy of Turkey triggered this entire issue.
If th government of Germany started denying the Holocaust in 50 years you BET we would and SHOULD have Congressional Resolutions to counter the denial! What you are saying is that would be inappropriate for Congress because the German government is not the Third Reich?
October 12th, 2024 at 2:32 am
What would change if the label is accepted as “Genocide” ns are very smart and hardworking people but when was the last time you heard an Armenian step up and placed another country ahead of it’s own selfishMoney in exchange of renewing years of hate and fear of one another? Armenia gain or national pride. Armenian’s are dispersed all over the world and yet unable to apreciate the countries that have housed them, fed them and protected them. Armenian’s are as old as the Roman’s, when was the last time you heard an Armenian contributed to the common good. Krikorian? The death Angel. Krikorian The billionair? Or the president who will not even work with the us to ease oil pipe lines to the west. Now they want the US to endanger their own country and their own relations for an unimportant country and people who never stuck out their own neck for anyone else. Why did they not educate the world instead of fighting about labels? I guess the spelling of Genocide will spell “BLOOD MONEY” My grandma was one of the survivars and I have heard many Armenians with tales but no one wants to say that the Armenians bought illigal guns and organized a rebellion against the Turks because they were being opressed by the Ottoman Empire. Unless someone shows this ignorant Armenian that Armenians did fight and die like a hero and not some cowards or sacraficial lamb, this is an insult for all those who died as a fighter and a proud Armenian.
October 12th, 2024 at 8:07 am
So it’s Congress’ mission to police the world to see if some government doesn’t truly provide free speech regarding certain subjects? If Congress is concerned about genocide, why not do something about genocides that are currently taking place, instead of waiting a century to discuss it? Darfur would be a good place to start. Then again failure to act in Rwanda led to a profitable movie, so maybe Pelosi chose to not doing anything about Darfur as a way of helping out her Hollywood donors.
I disagree on that. If Germany started denying the Holocaust *TODAY*, there is enough information available about the Holocaust that Germany would look stupid, without any need for the US to pile on. In fact, according to your logic, Pelosi’s several months late on passing a resolution telling Iran the Holocaust truly happened.
But in 50 years if the US piled on anyway just to upset the Germans, against the express statements of every living former Secretary of State, then yes, my much older self will call that wrong as well.