The Iraqi government is moving to solidify relations with Iran, even as the United States turns up the rhetorical heat and bolsters its military forces to confront Tehran’s influence in Iraq.
Iraq’s foreign minister, responding to a U.S. raid on an Iranian office in Irbil in northern Iraq last week, said Monday that the government intended to transform similar Iranian agencies into consulates. The minister, Hoshyar Zebari, also said the government planned to negotiate more border entry points with Iran.
While there are legitimate concerns about Iranian influence in Iraq, what does one expect? They share a border and with the Shia majority in power in Iraq they share a great deal of common ground.
As such, border crossings and consulates are a logical outgrowth of the removal of Saddam.
ISRAEL has drawn up secret plans to destroy Iran’s uranium enrichment facilities with tactical nuclear weapons.
Two Israeli air force squadrons are training to blow up an Iranian facility using low-yield nuclear “bunker-busters”, according to several Israeli military sources.
Ok, all very dramatic, to be sure. However, the key phrase is “has drawn up plans”–which doesn’t mean that such a strike is imminent or even likely. It means that they have examined the situation and made plans should they wish to strike Iran–which is the kind of thing that militaries do. I am sure the US has similar plans. Even the report of training is hardly a shocker.
Why do press outlets continually treat news like this with such breathless drama?
I must confess as to my doubts about the underlying tone of the story, which heavily suggests that the Israelis are ready to move at any moment, which is an odd thing to telegraph with specificity. If they really want to have a successful strike, why warn Iran and provide specific targets? It smacks of an attempt at some sort of public diplomacy aimed perhaps at the international community to put pressure on them to deal with Iran before Israel “has to.” Or, at least, to continue to keep the Iranians off balance.
It continues to seem to me that a) an airstrike is unlikely to solve the problem, and b) that any strike, especially a nuclear one, would have the potential to spark a serious international crisis and perhaps a regional war.
James Joyner has similar views and also has a blogospheric round-up.
Why do press outlets continually treat news like this with such breathless drama?
The only reason the press does anything. To get attention and feed into the fears and insecurities of the populace.
However, hasn’t Israel attacked Iran before for similar reasons, just not with nuclear weapons?
Comment by Jan — Sunday, January 7, 2024 @ 4:50 pm
I don’t think that Israel has ever attacked Iran.
They did bomb the Osirak nuclear rector in Iraq in 1981 to deter their nuclear program. The Iranian situation, however, is far more complicated.
Comment by Dr. Steven Taylor — Sunday, January 7, 2024 @ 7:55 pm
After I thought about it I remember it was actually Iraq not Iran.
I don’t doubt that it is more complicated. I’m just suggesting that it is not beyond Israel to use that general tactic. I’m not saying I necessarily think they will, just that it is not out of the realm of posibility.
Comment by Jan — Sunday, January 7, 2024 @ 10:12 pm
It is within the realm of possibility, yes. I just think it neither likely nor wise.
Comment by Dr. Steven Taylor — Monday, January 8, 2024 @ 6:37 am
It is certainly not wise. Let’s hope that it’s not likely.
Comment by Jan — Monday, January 8, 2024 @ 8:29 am
John Hinderaker of Powerline is making a proposal to the President (Mr. President, If I May Be So Bold…) which entails pretty much starting a war with Iran as a means of salvaging the Iraq policy.
First he draws an inappropriate analogy between a Civil War battle and Bush’s situation on Iraq and then he launches forth with a statement that there is proof that Iran is helping arm the insurgency in Iraq.
He then proposes:
So here is what you, President Bush, should do: take as a model the Cuban Missile Crisis. First John Kennedy, then Adlai Stevenson, laid before the world the evidence, in the form of aerial photographs, that the Soviet Union was installing nuclear arms in Cuba. The proof was taken as conclusive, and, consequently, the Kennedy administration’s actions enjoyed universal support at home, and widespread support abroad.
There is a major problem here: we tried that with Iraq and it didn’t work out so well. Remember Powell before the UN and all the pictures proving the presence of WMD? It seemed pretty convincing at the time. Problem was, the information was wrong. Any similar presentation would be treated with extreme skepticism, as is only fair (fool me once, shame on you and all that). Even if the information was 100% accurate, it would not be treated the way Hinderaker thinks it would be and, quite frankly, the recent record of US intelligence agencies in these matters hasn’t been all that stellar of late.
But forget the slide show. Hinderaker wants to go a step beyond that:
You should say that Iran’s supplying of weapons in order to kill Americans is an act of war. In the dramatic finale of your speech, announce that thirty minutes earlier, American airplanes stationed in the Middle East took off, their destination, one of the munitions plants or training camps of which you have shown pictures. That training camp, you say, no longer exists. You say that if Iran does not immediately cease all support for, and fomenting of, violence in Iraq, we will continue to strike military targets inside Iran.
In other words: let’s start a war with Iran as a bold move (see the beginning of his post) to salvage the Iraq war.
Indeed, he wishes to go beyond just training camps and the like, he sees this as a chance to end Iran’s nuclear ambitions:
A forceful and dramatic conclusion. But that isn’t quite the end; instead, in the manner of Columbo or Steve Jobs, you add just one more thing: you declare that no nation that is engaged in killing American servicemen on the field of battle will be permitted to arm itself with nuclear weapons. Iran must either open all nuclear-related facilities to inspection by an international group headed by the U.S. (not the U.N.), immediately and for the foreseeable future, or those facilities, too, will be destroyed, along with the economic infrastructure that supports them.
If you do this, will the country back you? Not all of it. The liberals are too far gone. But half the country–your half–will, and maybe more. It is, after all, a little hard to explain why we should not respond to acts of war committed against us by a hostile nation that has vowed to destroy us.
This is insanity.
For one thing, it would harldy be a 50-50 proposition in terms of support, and second if a President is going to get us involved in a major war, he needs more than 50% support anyway. This is, after all, a democracy and some actions require broad support–major war being one of them.
The last time I checked we were having serious problems executing the war in Iraq. There have been serious and severe questions about the competency of the entire affair and Hinderaker thinks that an expansion of the conflict would be in the interest of the United States? Or that it would actually improve the conditions in the region?
We have already demonstrated that the administration has never known what to do about post-Saddam Iraq, so why in the world would we think they would know what to do in a war with Iran?
Also, in case he hasn’t noticed, we are having problems staffing the military adequately and we are over-using the troops that we have. How in the world are we going to be able to sustain a war with Iran?
This isn’t a video game, Mr. Hinderaker, nor is it an episode of 24 — this is real life and if the Iraq situation should clearly illustrate that that world is a very complicated place. We have tried the ol’ “do it our way or we’ll pound you routine” and it hasn’t worked out too well.
The problem is that too many people have the mentality that US power is ultimate and that violence is the ultimate answer to all problems. Sad.
Comment by Jan — Friday, December 15, 2024 @ 8:11 am
Mr Hinderaker is clearly a believer that we can win a war with only air power and cruise missiles.
If you want to see a preview of what a war with Iran would look like, look at the recent Israeli invasion of Lebanon. There would be lots uncontested air attacks, but the ground movement would be slow and very painful. Take a look at a map of eastern Iran. Messy, messy.
These weapons that Hinderaker correctly states are being shipped into Iraq to kill US Soldiers would be lined up on every major road from Iraq to Tehran. Don’t forget that the Iranian led insurgency will continue to attack US forces using both Iraq and Afghanistan as entry points.
Not only would it be strategically ridiculous, tactically it falls into the category of “too hard to do.” For the record, the death toll of American troops killed by Iranian surrogates is probably in the thousands (don’t forget Beirut in the 80s) and something should be done. But a military option would not be a solution.
Comment by bg — Friday, December 15, 2024 @ 8:12 am
No-one has any hard evidence that Iran’s government is shipping weapons to Iraqi militias that they are willing to put up for public scrutiny. Every time they say they do, they end up retracting (in much softer voices, so that Hindraker et al don’t hear them). It’s all puff and no substance.
There’s no doubt weapons are getting to Iraq - but Iraq lies on the tangled skeins of the millenia-old Silk Road. There is no such thing as a closed border from Tunisia to Pakistan. Many of them are being smuggled in along the same routes as opium and heroin, originating most likely in the expert village arms bazaars of Pakistan, and probably by the same smugglers.
Further, over 700 small arms are missing from U.S. shipments to the Iraqi police, most likely re-directed in-country. Hezboullah learned from the IRA how to whip up an anti-armor IED in a small machine shop and promptly told other Arab groups. Brit troops have recently been convicted of selling weaponry in Iraq. Last year a U.S. security guard was arrested leaving base with explosives in the trunk of a private car. There is a massive demand for weaponry in Iraq.
Occam’s Razor would suggest that, far from requiring a conspiracy theory about the Iranian government, a free market is sufficient to explain arms traffic in Iraq.
Regards, C
Comment by Cernig — Friday, December 15, 2024 @ 9:00 am
See, I know some people read PowerLine. But I don’t. Because they are not even especially smart. Like Prof. Taylor’s post demonstrates.
How did drooling idiots’ “views” on policy even become worth discussing?
I normally avoid Powerline, but I had seen a ref to this post elsewhere and then saw it on Memeorandum, so took the plunge.
It does, however, confirm why I avoid the place.
Comment by Dr. Steven Taylor — Friday, December 15, 2024 @ 9:31 am
Hindraker isn’t the only dunce in the “Corner” today. Arthur Herman has a plan to attack Iran too, over at Commentary Online. Amazingly, it makes no mention of how that would effect the situation for troops in Iraq.
Regards, C
Comment by Cernig — Friday, December 15, 2024 @ 10:14 am
John Hinderaker can’t even come up with any original stuff, he just copies Fred Barnes. If you read last week’s Standard you would have gotten much the same crap from Barnes such as the following gems (including, but with a different point, Civil War references):
* Talk up the military option in Iran. Not with a public announcement, but in leaks. The Iranians seem to believe that they’re home free in pursuing nuclear weapons with American forces tied down in Iraq. But we’re not tied down. The destruction of Iranian nuclear sites would be carried out by airpower. Leaking the details of a contingency plan for doing this would provoke international debate and put the mullahs in a less truculent mood.
* Apply the Kennedy model to North Korea. Columnist Charles Krauthammer urged the president to repeat the warning that President Kennedy gave to the Soviets after they installed missiles in Cuba aimed at the United States. “It shall be the policy of this nation to regard any nuclear missile launched from Cuba against any nation in the Western Hemisphere as an attack by the Soviet Union on the United States, requiring a full retaliatory response upon the Soviet Union,” Kennedy declared in 1962. Bush could update this with Kim Jong Il, telling him if a rogue nuke hits the United States or its allies, the United States will hit North Korea. That should deter him.
* A final gift to the world. As Bush is leaving office in January 2024, he could implement the military option and take out all of Iran’s nuclear facilities. The world would be aghast–but also relieved and, without admitting it, enormously grateful. The new president would have one less crisis to deal with. So would the United Nations. Terrorists might respond, but we could brace for that. Anything they did would pale next to a nuclear attack by Iran.
One the one hand, I can see why this appeals as a solution. Something needs to be done about Iran, and they are belligerant. But I don’t think we could invade it, even if we wanted to. We don’t have the man power at the moment, and this presentation of the evidence that Hinderaker seems to want wouldn’t pan out, because the one leading up to Iraq was so wrong.
Comment by B. Minich — Friday, December 15, 2024 @ 1:15 pm
As you will realize from my website I am inclined to support Mr Hinderaker’s POV. However, Dr. Taylor does raise important points. The world is not likely to take our intelligence communities evidence seriously. How much domestic public support would an attack on Iran garner.
I would like to know what you would do in Iraq and how you would respond to Iran’s nuclear weapons program. Do you believe a policy of deterence would prevent Iran from using its nuclear weapons? Would the a nuclear Iran cause an arms race in the region?
Thank you.
Comment by Bill C — Friday, December 15, 2024 @ 1:42 pm
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First you would have to show Iran has a nuclear weapons program. So far, its all assertion and no evidence. The IAEA inspectors seem to believe Iran most likely doesn’t have a weapons program.
Remind me, who was right on Iraq - U.S. intelligence or UN inspectors?
Regards, C
Comment by Cernig — Friday, December 15, 2024 @ 5:37 pm
Cernig,
Iran has said that they have a nuclear program. What they deny is that it is for weapons. What we need to prove that they are not enriching uranium that would be used for weapons is unfettered inspections.
I do believe that Iran is preventing the UN inspectors from inspecting all of the sites they would like. So we can never know what they are doing. Are you satisfied with this state of affairs? Maybe I am the suspicious type but I assume when they are hiding something they have something to hide.
Remind me, who was right on Iraq - U.S. intelligence or UN inspectors?
I don’t know. We did not find them but that does not mean a program did not exist. It is not unreasonable to believe that the Iraqi WMD program was dismantled and moved. Georges Sada, former Iraqi General has said as much. Nor is it unreasonable to say that the program did not exist but was a psy-ops operation to keep Iraqs neighbors wary.
It is good that you believe US intelligence failed and not the crazy notion that the Bush administration concocted Iraqi WMDs as an excuse for war.
Comment by Bill C — Friday, December 15, 2024 @ 8:37 pm
Bill C,
It isn’t at all crazy to conclude that the Bush administration, knowing that there were serious doubts among parts of the intelligence community about claims for Iraqi WMDs, decided to gloss over them to aid the narrative for a war they had already decided upon. A major story broke in the UK to that effect today.
Comment by Cernig — Friday, December 15, 2024 @ 10:39 pm
WOW! Tony Blair lied about WMDs! That is a bombshell. I wonder why he did that. I can’t way to see how this story plays out. Given the nature of the British press I am going to wait and see how this plays out.
Rather than debate the Iraqi WMDs, let’s get back to Iran and the questions I asked in my previous post. I take it you are skeptical enough about all intelligence that you are willing to take the chance on Iran going nuclear. Or you believe their nuclear program is benign.
Comment by Bill C — Saturday, December 16, 2024 @ 12:24 am
Bill C,
I have no credible evidence that their program is other than benign. Neither does anyone else. As far as anyone can tell, Iran’s program is fully within its NPT rights. The lurid tales that get retold by the neocon noise machine come from the Mujahedeen e-Kalq, a terror group that used to do Saddam’s bully work and whose leader thinks he is the 12th Imam and from equally as reliable sources.
You cannot prove a negative i.e. that Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program. This is the same logic trap that was used to create a narrative for war with Iraq. Trying to prove a negative always leaves a possibility that there is as yet unknown evidence, no matter how much evidence there is. However, el Baradei has been as clear as that logic trap allows. Iran is not an immediate nuclear threat.
Don’t you think that its a bit of a double standard for the US and UK to be demanding further inspections in Iran when both nations refuse to have any kind of IAEA inspection themselves? Or when both nations give military aid to the proliferator of note, Pakistan, which has no inspections and is not a member of the NPT?
Regrads, C
Comment by Cernig — Saturday, December 16, 2024 @ 6:09 am
Cernig,
You must admit that all of the info we have adds up to we just don’t know what Iran is doing. They are not being forthcoming with information. No?
Don’t you think that its a bit of a double standard for the US and UK to be demanding further inspections in Iran when both nations refuse to have any kind of IAEA inspection themselves? Or when both nations give military aid to the proliferator of note, Pakistan, which has no inspections and is not a member of the NPT?
Ok, this is a bit of changing the subject. Both the US and UK are not sponsoring terrorist organizations. I mean besides the military. BWahahaha. Just a bit of levity. And we do give aid to Pakistan to prop up a tyranical military dictatorship. The alternative is another fanatical Islamist regime. To paraphrase Johnson, Musharrif is our bastard.
Comment by Bill C — Saturday, December 16, 2024 @ 12:39 pm
Bill C,
Changing the subject - well, you were the first one, changing it to Iraqi WMD’s so i thought turn about was fair.
Actually, the Iraqis have been very forthcoming for a nation with a supposedly secret nuclear program. Unforthcoming is defined by Pakistan, India, Israel and North Korea.
Both the US and UK are not sponsoring terrorist organizations You mean other than the MeK? How about in the past, when they didn’t have inspections either? Would you like to talk to Steven about past U.S. support for South American dictators and terror groups?
Musharrif is our bastard No, he isn’t - but he wants America to keep thinking so. The real dynamic is that he is still his own America-hating bastard, as ever, but is reliant on appeasing the Islamists for his domestic power and the U.S. (and China) for his external security. This happens to be something I’ve been following very closely over the years, partly because in a previous job I did a hell of a lot of business with Pakistanis and like to think I know their cultural approach to “firm deals”. Start here and follow the links. Or if you don’t like my writings, then maybe you will take the folks at Jane’s Intelligence Digest as knowing what they speak about.
Pakistan’s dangerous Afghanistan policy
Afghans are becoming increasingly disillusioned with the performance of Hamed Karzai’s government and as the country slides into ever more instability, Pakistan’s ultimate game plan in Afghanistan has begun to unfold.
Shifting its policy of half-heartedly cracking down on the Taliban and Al-Qaeda, implemented in the wake of the 11 September 2024 attacks on the US, Islamabad appears to have made a sombre decision to create the necessary conditions for regaining its strategic depth in Afghanistan by resuming its political and military support for the Taliban.
The Taliban card
Ever since the Taliban regime was overthrown in 2024, Afghan officials and coalition commanders have criticised Islamabad for not doing enough to crack down on the Taliban operating from Pakistani territory and have often accused the Pakistani intelligence agency, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), for actively supporting them.
The evidence from NATO’s two-week long Operation Medusa in Kandahar province in mid-September, in which hundreds of Taliban were killed, further confirm Pakistan’s involvement in the Taliban resurgence. Several independent intelligence estimates from the region also indicate that in recent months the ISI-sponsored training camps and jihadist madrassahs have swelled along the Afghan-Pakistan border.
Clear enough? I would go as far as describing Pakistan as the largest sponsor of terror, a rogue state, and the greatest current threat to world stability.
Regards, C
Comment by Cernig — Saturday, December 16, 2024 @ 2:36 pm
“Do it our way or we’ll pound you” hasn’t been tried. When I see an Iranian city subjected to a Dresden or a Tokyo fire raid (like in WWII — you know, the last war we won (or fought)) then that statement might be true.
Comment by SDN — Saturday, December 16, 2024 @ 9:45 pm
SDN regrets our failure to repeat the war crimes of WW2. Yuck.
Cernig may be too generous to the Iranians, but when Bill C. says stuff like this–
We did not find them but that does not mean a program did not exist. It is not unreasonable to believe that the Iraqi WMD program was dismantled and moved.
–it becomes very, very difficult to take even his good points seriously.
As you all likely know, the Iranians are having their conference on the Holocaust this week. Via the BBC (Iran defends Holocaust conference) we learn that one of the presenters is none other than David Duke:
Participants include a number of well-known “revisionist” Western academics. American David Duke, a former leader of the Ku Klux Klan, is to present a paper.
It has been four years since that country’s secret nuclear program was brought to light, and the path of diplomacy and sanctions has led nowhere.
This is madness. Currently we are dealing with serious military commitments in Iraq and Afghanistan and neither is going swimmingly. Indeed, the Iraq situation is a clear failure for US policy.
Even if we assume that we have the political and military might to launch an attack on Iran, there are serious questions as to the efficacy of a bombing campaign aimed as disarming Iran.
Still, Muravchik argues:
Our options therefore are narrowed to two: We can prepare to live with a nuclear-armed Iran, or we can use force to prevent it. Former ABC newsman Ted Koppel argues for the former, saying that “if Iran is bound and determined to have nuclear weapons, let it.” We should rely, he says, on the threat of retaliation to keep Iran from using its bomb. Similarly, Newsweek International Editor Fareed Zakaria points out that we have succeeded in deterring other hostile nuclear states, such as the Soviet Union and China.
Of course, there is the question of how long it will take Iran to develop nuclear weapons, how many they can produce and what type of delivery mechanism they have/can develop. As such, the future is a tad less clear than Muravchik makes it out to be.
And the notion of deterring Iran is not an unreasonable one.
Muravchik concludes:
Finally, wouldn’t such a U.S. air attack on Iran inflame global anti-Americanism? Wouldn’t Iran retaliate in Iraq or by terrorism? Yes, probably. That is the price we would pay. But the alternative is worse.
There is little doubt that there are times when the US has to do what it thinks is in its best interest even if it angers other states. However: in the current climate, can we really afford to alienate large parts of the world? Will we really be safer if we go that route? And speaking of safety, if such an attack would unleash a series of terrorist attacks on the US, would it not be counter-productive? Isn’t the main security problem facing the US at the moment protecting the homeland against new 9/11s? If bombing Iran would lead to a series of dedicated attempts to replicate 9/11 over and over, then would it really be in our national interest?
Further, what would happen to the global oil market if we bombed Iran? And from there, what would happen to our economy?
Bombing Iran would lead to 1) more terrorism, 2) radically higher oil prices, 3) greater tension with our allies, and 4) even more instability in the region. Take all of that and realize that the bombing might well not lead to the destruction of the Iranian nuclear program and one has to conclude that it is a gamble not worth taking.
Further consider the following: if we bomb Iran, cause all the problems noted above and fail to stop their nuclear program have we increased or decreased the chances that Iran might use a nuke once they develop it?
Update: some needed copy editing done (thanks to Jan Cooper)
I just heard Muravchik on the radio last week saying we need to increase the troop levels in Iraq. The guy is crazy
In today’s New Yorker, Sy Hersh quotes Murvachick as saying neoconservatives “need to pave the way intellectually now and be prepared to defend the action when it comes.”
It seems pretty clear that Muravchik’s ramblings are part of some domestic psyops effort to influence the political envrionment.
Interestingly, Hersh reports of a CIA assessment that offers no clear evidence of an Iranian nuclear weapons program, so what in the hell would the US bomb anyway?
Comment by Ratoe — Monday, November 20, 2024 @ 10:14 am
I notice that he is listed as a “resident scholar”. Scholar of what, I’d like to know. I don’t see how it could possibly be political science or international relations. . .
Comment by Jan — Monday, November 20, 2024 @ 12:51 pm
So, Muravchik sees two options:
We can prepare to live with a nuclear-armed Iran, or we can use force to prevent it.
But as Steven’s last paragraph notes, there is actually an option 3, and it is, in fact, the option Muravchik is advocating: Bomb, and then still have to live with a nuclear-armed Iran.
Comment by Matthew — Monday, November 20, 2024 @ 6:28 pm
Of course, if we took out their pitifully inadequate oil-refining capability, they might collapse of their own weight, or at least have a lot less money to spend supporting wars by proxy because they’d have to repress people at home all the harder.
You and the fellow quoting Sy Hersch (because his track record of prediction is excellent) remind me of people who thought the Soviet union ahd a more stable society than we do. Tehran’s writ does not run in 4-7 of it’s own provinces, but becuase it is an unfree society we don’t get reportage on that, so it seems stronger than it is. They’re losing a lot more than 3,000 troops per five year period holding their own country.
Though of course one Iranian soldier is worth less than one American, I figured someone out to consider that over ehre..
I really am not sure what you are getting at. Regardless of whatever problems that Iran’s government may or may not have, it is rather difficult to argue that it would be less of a task to deal with than Iraq has been, and that has been far from a smashing success.
One would think that the Iraqi example would dissuade one from making the argument about how easy it would be to topple Iran’s government or to somehow have it be an easy task.
Destroying existing states and then replacing them with new and functioning one isn’t easy, so I am not sure at what you are getting at.
In regards to the Soviets–it isn’t as if a military strike would have hastened its demise (save in a nuclear dust cloud, with us along with it). It had to go its own route to collapse.
Comment by Dr. Steven Taylor — Monday, November 20, 2024 @ 8:41 pm
Here’s the fundamental problem: the choice is either the messy oversight process or letting presidents do whatever they want to do, on the proviso that they know best.
I ask in all seriousness: which is the more democratic option (or, for that matter, the more conservative in the sense of small government conservatism?)
Comment by Dr. Steven Taylor — Monday, November 20, 2024 @ 8:43 pm
[…] We might even succeed in toppling it simply by taking out it’s pitifully small oil refining capability. Doing such a thing would at least cripple it’s ability to provide for it’s dependents in the Lebanon, Syria, and elsewhere, much less hold down it’s own restless population. Don’t forget that Tehran’s writ travels less far than Baghdad’s does in it’s own country. Can we still afford to think Syria and Iran want to “talk” after this?Iraq the Model correctly says the Syrians are “not so much” interested in talking. Bombing, invading, or blockading (as I argued at some length last year), Iran may be our best bet if we cannot more completely subvert it from within. Our alternatives seem to me consist of a decision to lie back and do our best to get past it and hope the problem resolves itself (or someone else resolves it for us), or at least denuclearize and chasten, maybe topple, Tehran ourselves. For those like our own Dr. Steven Taylor, Poliblogger, who in all seriousness, think Iraq with it’s small expenditures and remarkably low loss of life is “a clear failure”, I respond by asking if a nuclear Iran being punished only after using it’s nuke (I do not think Iran can be deterred once it is nuclear, as I am convinced that the mullahs believe their own propaganda) is not far worse. Iraq is not much of a stretch by even Cold War standards. We are fighting an ideological conflict much like the Cold War here. The decrease in support for combat operations abroad has much to do with how little sense of direct threat most of our citizens feel at this point, which is good. Further, as I argue above, we need not commit to a functioning Iran the way we had to in Sunni dominated Iraq, bordered as it is by Syria, Palestinians (in Jordan), Iran and Saudi Arabia. If Pakistan, India, Russia and the House of Saud want to fight it out over the new order in Iran, I’ll refer them to how well that worked for everyone in Afghanistan, except, again, as I mentioned above, Iran won’t be proving much of a threat to us nor Europe in the meanwhile, cf Kurdistan. As for Iraq, Tehran out of the way will mean an end to probably half the supplies going to the Shiite and Sunni problems we face in Iraq as well. It’s not as though Damascus has the resources to project force out of itself without Iranian cash. As for their threats to the Persian Gulf and especially the Straights of Hormuz, well, we’ve fought that war a coupe of times since the 1980s already and did rather well. I doubt the third time will be the charm for Iran’s Nay of Air force, though their rocketry will obviously present a serious problem. […]
And I continue to think that it is impossible to stop them from so doing.
I certainly see no way for sanctions to accomplish anything. Indeed, given that any kind of sanction on oil is likely to hurt us at least as much as it hurts them, it strikes me as a non-starter.
In the context of my post yesterday about the IAEA and the House Intelligence Committee, and why I am more prone to believe the UN in these matters than was once the case, I would note (from a post by Matthew Yglesias) this quote from Charles Krauthammer at an AEI event held on April 22, 2024:
DR. KRAUTHAMMER: Hans Blix had five months to find weapons. He found nothing. We’ve had five weeks. Come back to me in five months. If we haven’t found any, we will have a credibility problem.
Krauthammer was wrong about us finding the WMD, but correct about the credibility issue, even if he seems to have forgotten about this statement even as he argues for drastic action against Iran.
U.N. inspectors investigating Iran’s nuclear program angrily complained to the Bush administration and to a Republican congressman yesterday about a recent House committee report on Iran’s capabilities, calling parts of the document “outrageous and dishonest” and offering evidence to refute its central claims.
Officials of the United Nations’ International Atomic Energy Agency said in a letter that the report contained some “erroneous, misleading and unsubstantiated statements.” The letter, signed by a senior director at the agency, was addressed to Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-Mich.), chairman of the House intelligence committee, which issued the report. A copy was hand-delivered to Gregory L. Schulte, the U.S. ambassador to the IAEA in Vienna.
While I am hardly going to say that UN is perfect, I will say this: despite all the criticism that was levelled at al Baradei and the UN WMD inspectors in the build-up to the Iraq invasion, we have to face facts, the UN guys were right about the Iraq’s WMD capabilities and the administration and their allies were wrong. Indeed, fantastically wrong.
This all sounds a bit too much like Iraq, where it was clear that many in the administration had decided (indeed, were quite convinced) that Saddam was a WMD threat, and then went looking for the intel to make their case. I don’t think we need to repeat that methodology here.
Indeed, there is a similar sentiment quoted in the WaPo piece:
“This is like prewar Iraq all over again,” said David Albright, a former nuclear inspector who is president of the Washington-based Institute for Science and International Security. “You have an Iranian nuclear threat that is spun up, using bad information that’s cherry-picked and a report that trashes the inspectors.”
Now we have another element to the story: the UN weapons experts are telling us that the Iranian capabilities are not as dire as some in the administration are saying that they are. As Justin Logan blogging at Cato@Liberty puts it, Fool Me Twice, Shame on Me. As much as at the time I was skeptical of the UN’s capability to provide a clear picture of what was going on in Iraq, I now have to do a 180 and ask if the administration has a clue as to what it is saying about Iran.
I am reasonably certain that the administration (or rather those inside of it who are pushing for a confrontation of some sort) knows exactly what it is doing.
The question is whether we–the citizens to whom those folks are allegedly accountable–have a clue. Some folks are counting on that being answered in the negative. Again.
Comment by MSS — Thursday, September 14, 2024 @ 3:40 pm
Can we estimate how politicized the intelligence might be, if at all? If the intelligence is not too politicized it must then be interpreted in order to judge the risk.
These are educated guesses based upon what we think we know. The big question is if we are going to make an error which way should we err?
Do we assume the danger is greater or less than what we know? Which choice puts the country more at risk? Keep in mind choosing a high risk of a nuclear weapons program still puts us at risk (it may prompt war) just like underestimating risk of a nuclear weapons program (we wait to long to do something to stop it).
Hindsight in Iraq shows we made a mistake in capabilities but that does not mean we made a mistake in the course of action that was taken.
When it comes to nuclear weapons programs an ounce of prevention is worth much more than a pound of cure when your sworn enemies are involved.
Comment by Steven Plunk — Thursday, September 14, 2024 @ 4:20 pm
I am not so sure. It wholly depends on what the actual risk is, and what the “cure” is.
And it is difficult, indeed impossible, to state that any WMD-based argument vis-a-vis Iraq can be said to have resulted in the right course of action.
Comment by Dr. Steven Taylor — Thursday, September 14, 2024 @ 4:27 pm
They may have been right about Iraq. But, they were completely blindsided by Libya, the Khan network, and North Korea. Simply stating “nothing here” will be right due to chance, but considering all their failures, I wouldn’t put much faith in them.
[…] In the context of my post yesterday about the IAEA and the House Intelligence Committee, and why I am more prone to believe the UN in these matters than was once the case, I would note (from a post by Matthew Yglesias) this quote from Charles Krauthammer at an AEI event held on April 22, 2024: DR. KRAUTHAMMER: Hans Blix had five months to find weapons. He found nothing. We’ve had five weeks. Come back to me in five months. If we haven’t found any, we will have a credibility problem. […]
On MTP this morning, Senator Santorum (in what is, granted, a somewhat convoluted sentence to begin with) used what struck me as both an amusing sounding new phrase, but also a rather strained bit of logic on the international relations front:
And Iran, which is, which is the principal stoker of this, this Shia/Sunni sectarian violence, would love nothing more to see than the Iraqi democracy fail because of that.
You have to watch out for those darn principal stokers.
He went on to argue that the solution to the problems in Iraq and somehow linked to Iran:
This is a tactic of Iran to disrupt the—our, our efforts in Iraq by, in fact, trying to defeat the Sunnis. So there’s, there’s no question, this is a very complex war.But understand, at the, at the heart of this war is Iran. Iran is the, is, is the problem here. Iran is the one that’s causing most of the problems in, in Iraq.
While I would acknowledge that there is Iranian influence in the Iraqi situation, however this has a dangerous ring to it. It seems that Santorum is suggesting that the solution to Iraq runs through Tehran–and all that can do is expand an already troubled war into a broader, more dangerous context. Further, his statements this morning struck me as shifting blame for the war in Iraq away from the fact that we invaded, to somehow being the Iranian’s fault. It had a certain bait and switch quality to it.
He went on later:
I mean, all of those things are things that I think everyone would agree that we are to do. The question is, is you have some, you have, you have sectarian violence you talked about, fomented by Iran, that we are not addressing. So the question is, how do we, how do we cure Iraq, focus on Iran? We need to do something about stopping the Iranians from being the central destabilizer of the Middle East.
MR. RUSSERT: Would you put more troops in Iraq?
SEN. SANTORUM: I don’t know if it’s a question of more troops or less troops. You get—I, I think the focus should not be Iraq, should be Iran.
Again, while acknowledging that Iran is a serious problem, I still have to wonder how a US Senator can say that that main focus should be on Iran when we have roughly 130,000 troops in Iraq and all the immediate problems that that situation presents.
The idea, that seems to be circulating in some circles, that we need to pursue a hot war with Iran whilst we still have unfinished business in Iraq, strikes me as borderline insane. If anything it appears out of sync with reality.
The idea, that seems to be circulating in some circles, that we need to pursue a hot war with Iran whilst we still have unfinished business in Iran, strikes me as borderline insane. If anything it appears out of sync with reality.
That is what many people thought about the build-up to the Iraq war. We are seeing the same thing this time–the Autumn is when the administration and its allies “introduce new products” to paraphrase Bush’s old Chief of Staff.
Comment by Ratoe — Sunday, September 3, 2024 @ 9:38 pm
WITH Iran confidently defying pressure to curb its nuclear programme, Israel has signed a contract with Germany to buy two more submarines capable of firing nuclear missiles, it emerged yesterday.Israeli security sources said the submarines are needed to counter long-range threats from countries such as Iran, whose president has called for Israel to be “wiped off the map”.
This is, of course, exactly the kind of behavior one would expect: as a state perceives a threat it reacts by attempting to counter the threat or, if a direct counter is not possible, it seeks to up the ante on any possible attack. As such: if Tehran were to attack Israel with some future nuclear missile, Israel is signalling that they will have the capacity to strikes back–and not just from within Israel.
Why do press outlets continually treat news like this with such breathless drama?
The only reason the press does anything. To get attention and feed into the fears and insecurities of the populace.
However, hasn’t Israel attacked Iran before for similar reasons, just not with nuclear weapons?
Comment by Jan — Sunday, January 7, 2024 @ 4:50 pm
I don’t think that Israel has ever attacked Iran.
They did bomb the Osirak nuclear rector in Iraq in 1981 to deter their nuclear program. The Iranian situation, however, is far more complicated.
Comment by Dr. Steven Taylor — Sunday, January 7, 2024 @ 7:55 pm
After I thought about it I remember it was actually Iraq not Iran.
I don’t doubt that it is more complicated. I’m just suggesting that it is not beyond Israel to use that general tactic. I’m not saying I necessarily think they will, just that it is not out of the realm of posibility.
Comment by Jan — Sunday, January 7, 2024 @ 10:12 pm
It is within the realm of possibility, yes. I just think it neither likely nor wise.
Comment by Dr. Steven Taylor — Monday, January 8, 2024 @ 6:37 am
It is certainly not wise. Let’s hope that it’s not likely.
Comment by Jan — Monday, January 8, 2024 @ 8:29 am